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 JOINT WARRIOR 4 - CLAIMING/REPORTING 
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:51 pm
Posts: 2
Can the final outcome of the match be considered valid when 2 of the orange pilots were removed from the match within the first 10 minutes due to this desync issue? Pyro and I saw the same exact thing--invisible instant death from a dead F-15 on fire with no wings. Score and ranking aside, I think our early removal definitely altered the course of the match. We've both performed well in all the previous events, and I know we would have killed at least a few fighters between us. Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of SA/the 51st/and the 104th because you guys organize these events, so your proposed solution is appreciated.


Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:06 am
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 144
Hey guys!

I will try to answer all claims in a chronological order so if you don't see my answer to your claim, it means that I have not reached it on the logs yet.

@Doktormarg: Tacview from the server shows you hitting and destroying akystoy with a 120C while he was chasing Pyromaniac; a few sec later, an AIM-7 and tracers spawn out of nowhere then moments later you both get killed. It is obvious that akystoy while already dead on the server was still sending packets from his own machine due to desync issues. Similarly, he may have not heard about your 120 til too late.

Therefore, kills and deaths from this particular engagement are not valid, thus will not be counted.

We understand this was very unfortunate for team Red as it resulted in two losses against only one loss for team Orange. This was bad luck for you guys. KombatMilc has also had an unlucky day as he lost connection while in a merge and had to quit. Sometimes luck is just not there and one should hang in there.


Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:12 am
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:51 pm
Posts: 2
SA Staff wrote:
Hey guys!

I will try to answer all claims in a chronological order so if you don't see my answer to your claim, it means that I have not reached it on the logs yet.

@Doktormarg: Tacview from the server shows you hitting and destroying akystoy with a 120C while he was chasing Pyromaniac; a few sec later, an AIM-7 and tracers spawn out of nowhere then moments later you both get killed. It is obvious that akystoy while already dead on the server was still sending packets from his own machine due to desync issues. Similarly, he may have not heard about your 120 til too late.

Therefore, kills and deaths from this particular engagement are not valid, thus will not be counted.

We understand this was very unfortunate for team Red as it resulted in two losses against only one loss for team Orange. This was bad luck for you guys. KombatMilc has also had an unlucky day as he lost connection while in a merge and had to quit. Sometimes luck is just not there and one should hang in there.


Thanks for the response. I guess giving a score of 0-0 to all parties involved is the only possible solution. That sucks, but what else can you do? Team orange, we will see you at the next one...


Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:55 am
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:08 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Cancun, Mexico
Doktormarg wrote:
Can the final outcome of the match be considered valid when 2 of the orange pilots were removed from the match within the first 10 minutes due to this desync issue? Pyro and I saw the same exact thing--invisible instant death from a dead F-15 on fire with no wings. Score and ranking aside, I think our early removal definitely altered the course of the match. We've both performed well in all the previous events, and I know we would have killed at least a few fighters between us. Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of SA/the 51st/and the 104th because you guys organize these events, so your proposed solution is appreciated.


Hi Doktormarg, Aleman had the same fate and is one of our best pilots, minutes from the start he was destroyed by an invisible missile that give no RWR signal at any stage of the flight. We had to get used that he was destroyed and continue, of course, in your case was worst, because you watched the guy flying in flames with no wings in front of you, like a hell demon, and nothing could shot him down.

I think the decision taken by the SA staff will be fair.

Regards.


Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:35 pm
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Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:21 pm
Posts: 2
JW4 Red vs orange
(Assist Claim)
At UTC 8:57:20 me and Cygon Parrot both engaged Mamba, watching the TacView it appears a R73 was launched before my Aim9 was, Mamba dissapears before my Aim9 hits his wreckage maybe 2-3 seconds later. i remember launching my Aim9 and watching its trajectory veer to the right. The first explosion was straight ahead of me through my hud which had occured much sooner than i expected my missile would be intercepting. the match registered a kill for me around the time my missile hit him off to my right which is where my Aim9 headed towards. my aim9 was in flight around the time the R73 hit Mamba and ill gladly share the kill with Cygon Parrot.

(Death Report)
At UTC 9:28:00 EVC57_Ninja engaged (Arctic and/or Tracerfacer) with quite a few Aim120's, i was in ninja's future flight path below the ridgeline of a mountain. as (tracerfacer/arctic) was hit i turned around in my cockpit trying to track the missile trails while turning, i became situationally unaware and ended up turning toward the mountain side, running into it. i do not believe i was engaged by ninja in anyway, it was my own flying that got me killed. i never saw ninja but i figured he would have already past my position and was turning around to find him.

thanks for hosting, this event was a blast!
Alphaskoom


Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:26 pm
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:08 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Cancun, Mexico
F99th-Alphaskoom wrote:
JW4 Red vs orange


(Death Report)
At UTC 9:28:00 EVC57_Ninja engaged (Arctic and/or Tracerfacer) with quite a few Aim120's, i was in ninja's future flight path below the ridgeline of a mountain. as (tracerfacer/arctic) was hit i turned around in my cockpit trying to track the missile trails while turning, i became situationally unaware and ended up turning toward the mountain side, running into it. i do not believe i was engaged by ninja in anyway, it was my own flying that got me killed. i never saw ninja but i figured he would have already past my position and was turning around to find him.

thanks for hosting, this event was a blast!
Alphaskoom


In real life (and in this events), when an aircraft crashed due a combat event, could be a dogfight, an evasive maneuver against incoming missiles or aircraft, or simply to get a lag position behind an enemy, the kill is credited to the survivor aircraft, is named "maneuvering kill".


Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:52 pm
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 144
Rush wrote:
Aleman had the same fate and is one of our best pilots, minutes from the start he was destroyed by an invisible missile that give no RWR signal at any stage of the flight.
Regards.


The death of Aleman is perfectly normal because he was sustaining a roll angle superior to 30 deg whilst the 120 was in Pitbull range, so the RWR won't pick up anything and he will get no warning. Many people are not aware of this limitation but it does exist since early LO versions and is supposed to simulate RWR's blind spots.

Bandit wrote:
my death was also "wierd" im sure its just a lag issue. it looks perfectly normal on the tac view, however, what i saw in game was completely different. i managed to get out of the engagement and extend just about 10 nm behind gabriel. I saw hawss get shoot down and gabe and i continued to rtb on full burner. then all of the sudden i died. no missle warning or anything.

i would guess i actually died like it is represented on the tacview but it simply registered a lot later hence why i kept flying. however, if you guys can look into it it would be appreciated.
thank you
S77th Bandit


That is quite different from what happened to Doktor and Pyro, the lag must have been at your end only as your attacker (Plaiskool) did not show any abnormal behavior; as you said, everything looks normal on the server-generated Tacview so the lag you have experienced must have been related to you only. Therefore, this kill/loss event stands.


Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:09 am
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Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:20 pm
Posts: 2
thank you for the answer and it is perfectly understanble. i forgot to mention that in tacview i dont get the kill on gaanmla. however, during the event it did show the kill message. im sure this is obvious from the logs. but still id rather mention it just in case.


Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:02 pm
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 144
Bandit wrote:
thank you for the answer and it is perfectly understanble. i forgot to mention that in tacview i dont get the kill on gaanmla. however, during the event it did show the kill message. im sure this is obvious from the logs. but still id rather mention it just in case.


Yes, that is confirmed.


Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:42 pm
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 144
F99th-Alphaskoom wrote:
JW4 Red vs orange
(Assist Claim)
At UTC 8:57:20 me and Cygon Parrot both engaged Mamba, watching the TacView it appears a R73 was launched before my Aim9 was, Mamba dissapears before my Aim9 hits his wreckage maybe 2-3 seconds later. i remember launching my Aim9 and watching its trajectory veer to the right. The first explosion was straight ahead of me through my hud which had occured much sooner than i expected my missile would be intercepting. the match registered a kill for me around the time my missile hit him off to my right which is where my Aim9 headed towards. my aim9 was in flight around the time the R73 hit Mamba and ill gladly share the kill with Cygon Parrot.

(Death Report)
At UTC 9:28:00 EVC57_Ninja engaged (Arctic and/or Tracerfacer) with quite a few Aim120's, i was in ninja's future flight path below the ridgeline of a mountain. as (tracerfacer/arctic) was hit i turned around in my cockpit trying to track the missile trails while turning, i became situationally unaware and ended up turning toward the mountain side, running into it. i do not believe i was engaged by ninja in anyway, it was my own flying that got me killed. i never saw ninja but i figured he would have already past my position and was turning around to find him.

thanks for hosting, this event was a blast!
Alphaskoom



Hey Alpha,

Assist-wise, DCS will attribute the kill to the last attacker but Tacview shows Mamba getting shot down by Cygon's R-73. If it was only damaged by Cygon's missile, then your AIM-9 would have finished the target therefore you would be credited with the kill and Cygon would get an assist. But since the target was shot down upon first R-73 hit, then Cygon needs to be credited with the kill while an assist will be counted for you.


Regarding your loss, nobody was engaging you in close quarters or firing missiles at you, so that was a plain crash.


Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:45 am
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